Don't have time for a long post, but I have a question for others out there.
I recently had a discussion with my wife and it seems she is more upset with the way I have been treating her over the last time period prior to moving out than she is with my being gay! I cannot seem to wrap my mind around that. I look at it as the treatment was indeed awful, but that is now over. The gayness is still here. To me, that is where her anger should be directed. After a discussion with a vey good friend, I realized that while I have accepted being gay, I still don't want to be gay.
Okay, now for the question: Is this a normal or at least common step in this process? Will I get past this? Of course I will be discussing this with Steve at next session, but I was curious as to how it might be in the "real" world. Please give me some feedback. I really need it.
Yes, it is all part of the process. It will change, trust me. You have a LOT of conditioning and brainwashing to overcome!
ReplyDeleteOk I'm directing this to the confusion about your wife's behavior. You more than likely treated her like crap. I remember reading in your blog that you referred to her as clueless. And like I've said before, you treated her this way without giving any explanation. i don't know how long you treated her that way or how long it's been since you've had sex with her. But women take the stuff personally. I didn't think, "oh my husband is moody i wonder what's wrong with him" i thought " what did i do or didn't i do? did i forget something? why does he not seem interested in me sexually? is it because I've put on some weight?" With my ex-husband, I accepted the fact that he was gay. But what I couldn't accept was that he treated me like i was stupid, and only good for sex. Grrrrr i could go on for days about this but i'm not. like i told you, it's a journey now. Buckle up.
ReplyDeleteI was hoping you ladies would respond. YES, I did treat her like crap! As I told her when the anger came out. I know I did. That was one of the main reasons I had to get out. I knew I was doing it and I couldn't stop myself. As for giving an explanation, well, I couldn't now could I? Not really since I am a coward as I told her. Funny people have said I am courageous for coming out. Neglecting I was a coward for not coming out. The thing is that to me, that behavior is over. She knows the reason for it. And you are so right. I'm needing to buckle up. As she and others have reminded me: I prefer logic to emotion. And logic has no real place here.
DeleteSean's comment is right. In our journey to self acceptance, no matter how accepting our friends and relatives, we still become somewhat stigmatized over our sexuality. I separated 5 years ago, and am much happier now than even then. You may even still be going through the "grieving cycle" over your separation (I hate that term, but the process is similiar.)
ReplyDeleteOur separation was not especially hospitable despite my efforts, and I haven't come out to her. But there was a day that in going about my normal a.m. routine, opening my office door, filling my coffee cup, that I sat there sipping my coffee with a grin on my face. Three people in passing commented to me how happy I seemed to be (and no I didn't get lucky the night before). After some consideration, I realized that it really didn't have anything to do with my sexuality, I had accepted that years before, though I chose to carry on - it really had to do with the realization that she no longer had control over me, that despite her best efforts, my life would go on. I had handled all the legalities with her lawyer myself up to that point and there wasn't another request or allegation - her lawyer was even on my side. It was like crossing the divide.
The time since, I've used to heal, I've provided care to my daughter who lives with me, and care for myself. I did attempt a relationship, and while it did have its problems, neither of us were at the time where it was going to work, but I feel it did help both us - we had a lot of good times together. He's now married to man, and he recently added me to facebook, and we've had a few conversations. I look forward to having them both as friends.
Now, I feel stronger than ever before, that I can build the life I never believed I could before I married.
Self acceptance is a paramount. You also have to accept that you are not responsible for making other people accepting you. You are the same person, your sexuality is just part of who you are. People will react differently, some will accept you, some will react badly, some will have nothing more to do with you, and some will need time.
We all go through the process, some quicker than others, but there will be a day that you stop and realize that despite everything you are still standing, and still moving forward.
There is one thing I meant to mention - forgive yourself! Deal with any guilt you may feel. As you reflect, and we all do, "I should have", "I wish I had", "Why didn't I", isn't self affirming. We all made mistakes, but if you want to move on, you need to forgive yourself for your part.
ReplyDeleteYour words are very comforting to me. I thank you so much for them. ESP the forgive myself. I'm not there yet, but I am so much closer than I was earlier. I have a terrific support network on the internet. Maybe that is why I didn't do this 20 years ago. I needed the 'net.
DeleteOh and very good to meet you Al. I must get to Canada. So many of my new friends seem to be there.
For the last 5 years of my marriage, my husband was moody, irritable and sometimes downright hateful to me. He was basically acting like I was an annoyance in his life. I knew he was unhappy with our sex life (he wanted it a lot more than I did - go figure), so I felt guilty about that and took all the bad moods as something I deserved for not being a better wife. Don't get me wrong, we were still having sex at least a couple times a month at the very worst part of things!!! Now I realize that it's kind of hard to want to have sex with a guy who is seething with rage at you, so I'm cutting myself a break.
ReplyDeleteAnyway, after disclosure, his anger melted away. I totally got what was going on. He felt so relieved that I wasn't angry about something he had nothing to do with (being gay), and that we could be good friends again. My husband has been faithful, he has been too afraid to act on his SSA. He HATES the fact that he is gay and is not anywhere near acceptance yet. He also has some very bad childhood abuse issues that just came up in the last 6 weeks which also is a BIG part of his self-loathing and another reason he is giving himself some time before thinking about being sexual with a man. He doesn't want ANYONE to touch him at the moment. It's all so tangled up right now.
Best,
Iris
OMG, I am so glad you told me this. Michelle has her email address, All I ask is you don't give her this blog address. It would kill her at this point. I have so been where he is now! As for go figure: Having sex with you is a way of "showing" himself that he isn't gay. Boy do I understand that. Couple times a month isn't bad. Try 5 years!!!!! In fact, my warped mind thinking went something like this: Having sex with another woman would be really wrong, but I NEED sex. Solution, sex with guys. Pros: Not as good, but it isn't like I hadn't had it in past and no complications like the new woman wanting me to leave wife and marry her. Cons: It is gay sex. And we have tried to tell ourself we aren't gay. After awhile, we start to look at gay porn (do you follow buddy bear at all?) Eventually, we start to have feelings for our hookup. At times so does he. Fantasize about living together on occasion. After a while realize that you don't really want women anymore. Oops, that means you might be gay. Anger. So much anger. Tangled up? I can only imagine how much. The old phrase, been there, done that anyone? Of course if you say this, it sounds as if you are blaming the wife for being gay. I am NOT, I am smart enough to realize that it probably would have happened eventually anyway. But the longer I could have put that off the better I would have felt. With luck, I might have the family curse (Dad, uncles most uncles dead at 61 from heart issues) and I wouldn't have had to worry about it. Melodramatic? Maybe, but that is how I viewed things for a long time. I can understand you ex not wanting anyone to touch him right now! In fact, without knowing him, I am worried about him. Please give him as much care and space as you can. His hurt right now is beyond understanding. Believe me on this.
DeleteGive Tim McGraw a listen:
ReplyDeletehttp://youtu.be/o45bWqSJNYE
He`s not bad to look at either!
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ReplyDeleteWow, that is so well written. I love it! You are the best. No wonder you got an honary card. I love you man.
ReplyDelete(sorry, I removed the post...miscommunication, thought I had upset you...think it went something like this)
ReplyDeleteWell, you know I've never been one to keep things in...I believe you call it lack of filter.
I can totally understand why Sarah is upset about the way you treated her over the past year. As you have told me, she is your very best friend.
Best friends simply don't treat each other like that. Sarah is a terrific woman, and might I say very strong as she has shown. It seems to me she realizes you have no control over your sexual preference and does not fault you for who you are. I believe the anger or maybe it's guilt you're feeling at discovering the full extent of who you are, is something you believe she too should feel.
However, she doesn't because just like all your close friends your sexual preference is irrelevant to our continued support for you as a friend. You're a great guy, and she knows that. Unfortunately for the past year, you have struggled with self and her being your closest friend got the fallout. Likely it was unintentional but all the same you were probably taking a lot out on her as though it was somehow her fault. Probably was extremely hard to hit a huge hurdle like this and not be able to share it with her.
Bottom line, she loves you because you are a great person...and will always love you for that. Now you have to start forgiving yourself, or rather accepting the fact that there is nothing to forgive in being gay.
You're a great guy, your preference in bed has absolutely no impact on that!!!
Thanks, I am beginning to accept that. You are also a very good friend and been invaluable to me on this journey.
ReplyDeleteOh thank you so much for what you wrote! To be honest the abuse issues are just so overwhelming right now. My husband (we are still married and living together), needs space, but I worry so much about him because he really believes he deserves to die alone living in a shack somewhere.
ReplyDeleteI hesitate to encourage him to take as much space as he needs as I am afraid for his mental health. He has promised me he won't hurt himself, and I believe him, but he believes he is absolute shit (like he was told), not worth anything. It breaks my heart. We have two young kids (10 & 7) and he needs to get well for them (I'm not speaking about sexual orientation, just to be clear - I'm strictly speaking about abuse issues).
He is seeing a therapist, but not very frequently due to his schedule, and unfortunately any anger or perceived criticism that he sees coming from me, blows up into this huge deal where I become the bad guy and his abuser was "right all along". Everything is black or white, never gray - you are good or bad.
That's where he is right now as he read an entry in my journal I had written all about my anger and humiliation at finding out 15 years into our marriage that my husband is gay. ( He told me he was gay - there was nothing to catch him at as he hasn't acted on his orientation.) I would give anything to take back my ranting words and even more for him not to have found them, they were meant only to get out all my anger (rational or not), not for him to read as I know how vulnerable he is. I honestly don't know if he will ever look at me the same way again.
Keep a good thought for us and I wish you continued success.
Oh - this is Iris by the way!!!!! :-)
DeleteHi Iris, Amazing time you have! Went to house today to pick up stuff. No one was awake and she and I talked for a long time. Like you, she is more worried about me and tells me not to worry about her. I told her I would try, but really, after worrying about her for 40 years, it isn't like I'm about to stop now. I feel so bad for you husband right now. I really do. Mostly because I can so relate to where he is right now. Sarah wanted to make sure that she forgave me for the way I behaved to her. I think she was grateful for my explaining that though silly, the reason for my bad behavior was that I blamed her for being gay. Well, not for being gay, but for putting me in a position where I could no longer "control" the gay urges. Truth is, I know that now, but didn't know it before. I REALLY thought, I could have sex with guys occasionally and not let that part of me out. When I told her that and that the therapist said I should "embrace" that part of me, she agreed. I agreed to try. Embrace? WTF, I mean I have accepted it, shouldn't that be enough? Guess not. Just can't see me going "I am so glad I'm gay" Nope can't see it.
ReplyDeleteBack to your husband though. I was talking with a good friend of mine and mentioned his situation. No names etc of course. But I can only imagine what he is going through. I mean, I accept this and it still isn't enough. I really really hope he does okay. And if there is ANY way I can help him, I will, just ask.